Want To Trade Places With ASu?

Discussion on Rich Rodriguez and the Arizona Football team

Want To Trade Places With ASu?

Postby b_dog » Mon May 15, 2017 12:01 pm

ASu has again claimed the "Territorial Cup Series", which was invented as an advertising gimmick 8 years ago by State Farm Insurance (prior to pulling their funding.) Their "win" was accomplished on the strength of their women's track team finishing 6th vs. our 8th and their men's team finishing 8th vs. our 9th in the Pac-12 track meet this past weekend. That's despite UofA's men's team beating ASu head-to-head last month, which would properly send the series back to being a tie. 40 percent of their points come from track and field, with half coming from something called the Mountain Pacific Sports Federation, of which 26 of 39 members are not even P5 conference schools. And then there are the wins in cross country, golf, tennis, etc., which is just really swell. I'm sure somebody will say "I like winning in those sports." Well, I really enjoy a nice new pair of slacks, and I love lamp too. But, for me, I'll take a 3 TD win in the ACTUAL Territorial Cup without having to throw a pass in the second half. Then, I'll take a sweep of hoops, with the margin for both wins comfortably in the teens. Baseball's coming up this weekend, so we'll see how that goes. But regardless, we'll go to post-season play, which is the ultimate metric. Beyond those three, our next most important sport, by both attendance and media coverage, is softball. Check. Women's hoops and volleyball were both draws, and we took women's soccer. I'll take that particular group of sports for whatever arbitrary point system anybody wants to apply. At this point, somebody always huffs and puffs and grunts about how we didn't go to a New Year's Day bowl or the Final Four. Correct; that would be nice, and hopefully we'll do better. The pills are in the medicine cabinet.
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Re: Want To Trade Places With ASu?

Postby BigPat » Mon May 15, 2017 1:19 pm

ASu won the popular vote. They don't get anything but they will run around bragging about being a better athletic department or something stupid. We, on the other hand get to keep drinking Champagne for the real Cup!
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Re: Want To Trade Places With ASu?

Postby FlagCat » Mon May 15, 2017 1:52 pm

Seems like it relies disproportionately on men's track athletes and women's track athletes, with subsets of these same groups accounting for cross country. So like it or not, with men's/women's indoor track, with men's/women's outdoor track, and men/women's cross country, the performance of this set of athletes accounts for 6 points out of the max point total of 19.
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Re: Want To Trade Places With ASu?

Postby Black Oaks » Mon May 15, 2017 4:24 pm

No
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Re: Want To Trade Places With ASu?

Postby Mountaincat » Tue May 16, 2017 6:34 am

Black Oaks wrote:No


As Black Oaks noted, the simple answer to the question is "NO"
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Re: Want To Trade Places With ASu?

Postby Blue Cat » Tue May 16, 2017 8:47 am

I want to beat ASu in all sports, and I do enjoy following all the great sports that UofA has to offer. However, my focus is primarily on football and men's basketball. This year UofA swept ASu in those sports for the first time in over a decade. Here are the "sweeps" over the last 50 years:

Arizona (11):

'16-'17
'04-'05
'98-'99
'97-'98
'95-'96
'90-'91
'89-'90
'88-'89
'86-'87
'84-'85
'83-'84

ASu (6):

'07-'08
'81-'82
'80-'81
'72-'73
'71-'72
'70-'71
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Re: Want To Trade Places With ASu?

Postby catnaz » Wed May 17, 2017 7:04 am

Other good news, we're in good shape to finish higher again in the Directors Cup. We're currently ahead 15-8.
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Re: Want To Trade Places With ASu?

Postby AzCatFan » Wed May 17, 2017 9:45 am

catnaz wrote:Other good news, we're in good shape to finish higher again in the Directors Cup. We're currently ahead 15-8.


True. We are guaranteed to score more points than ASu in baseball, as we'll make the dance and they won't. Almost guaranteed to score more points in softball, as we're the #2 overall seed and host all the way to Oklahoma City, and ASu has to travel to Mississippi for their regional.
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ASu Is A Mess

Postby b_dog » Fri May 19, 2017 11:07 am

Dating back to the time when Todd Graham was outed for stealing signs (November of 2015), he’s 4-10 In Pac-12 and bowl games. In the same time frame, Bobby Hurley is 12-24 in Pac-12 games. And now Tracy Smith is one game in the loss column out of last place in the Pac-12 with one more road series to play. But lap dog Jeff Metcalfe is dutifully working into every story the one ray of sunshine from the ASu spin machine: ASu’s “win” in the “Territorial Cup Series.” This is actually worth some scrutiny. Some ad agency representing State Farm Insurance initially created and administered it. Naturally, both UofA and ASu put the State Farm logo on their fields and courts when the two teams played and took their money. But, State Farm couldn’t afford it and dropped out after just a few years. And then questions cropped up. UofA said indoor track shouldn’t be included, because the Mountain Pacific Sports Federation is a weird bastardization of far west teams and we use it primarily to get in shape for the outdoor season. Supposedly, this was resolved, but nobody published any meeting minutes, so even that’s uncertain. And exactly what neutral body adjudicates issues? It’s not State Farm Insurance, that’s for sure. ASu cranks out their little Cronkite news releases, and the Phoenix media reads them verbatim with no questions asked. So let’s just leave ASu in charge. Uh…not. Why, when our men’s track team beat ASu’s team at Sun Angel Stadium on April 29, 2017 by a score of 102 to 94, is that head-to-head score not used, rather than standings at the Pac-12 meet? Makes no sense. Head-to-head is used in every other case, unless it doesn’t take place in a particular sport. So swing that point over, as any sane person would agree, and we’re currently tied. Somebody signed off on a concept eight years ago with dollar signs in their eyes and without looking into it very carefully for sustainability and on-going administration. ASu being ASu, they’re going to grab whatever they can off the sidewalk and parade around holding it over their heads, and the Phoenix media will go along, maybe with an unpaid little ASu intern writing and/or reading the story for them. What’s next? ASu unilaterally announces that they get a point for men-in-tights rasslin’ each other, even though we, and 9 other Pac-12 teams, don’t care to field that sport? How about roller derby or curling? A couple of years ago, UofA went public with some concerns and objections about the current process, and some smug assholes harrumphed into their jowls before going back to sleep. Doesn’t matter who “wins” or “loses”, it’s a case where if you can’t come to (written) agreement on a process and you don’t have a way to resolve questions and disputes, then you just have one side making a questionable claim, rather than a valid activity. And the bottom line is that, unless you’re in the lunatic fringe of fandom, you’ll happily take a (likely) 6.0 to 1.0 total in football, men’s and women’s basketball, baseball, softball, women’s soccer, and women’s volleyball over an oddly track weighted process promoted by pencil-pushers.
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Re: ASu Is A Mess

Postby FlagCat » Fri May 19, 2017 11:57 am

b_dog wrote:Why, when our men’s track team beat ASu’s team at Sun Angel Stadium on April 29, 2017 by a score of 102 to 94, is that head-to-head score not used, rather than standings at the Pac-12 meet?


You make a really valid gripe here. I didn't even realize this was the case. Was it set up by State Farm to go by the Pac-12 meet standings because the two schools don't go head-to-head every season? In that case it should be "go by the standings in the Pac-12 meet unless the teams play head-to-head". But like you say, there's no means to enforce or regulate this thing.

So in the absence of a neutral regulating entity, U of A should start it's own Territorial Cup Series with it's own set of criteria and put out its own press releases on it.
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